Author Topic: TreeSketch 2.0  (Read 2714 times)

thecravatman

    Reputation: 7
TreeSketch 2.0
« on: November 25, 2011, 10:53:12 am »
November 25, 2011, 10:53:12 am
Could the team & forum please comment on the use of TreeSketch 2.0 in Lumion.
We are currently testing it. So far imports well structurally, just scale and textures to sort out.
One questions is can wind be applied?
Cheers
T

Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2011, 12:31:18 pm »
November 25, 2011, 12:31:18 pm
Wind can only be applied to SpeedTree objects.

I read that they can't export leaf textures due to licensing restrictions:
http://www.ronenbekerman.com/the-magical-touch-treesketch-2-0/

Can you upload a sample FBX tree, so we can check out if there are any texture/material issues?

thecravatman

    Reputation: 7
Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2011, 02:38:23 pm »
November 25, 2011, 02:38:23 pm
Wind can only be applied to SpeedTree objects.

I read that they can't export leaf textures due to licensing restrictions:
http://www.ronenbekerman.com/the-magical-touch-treesketch-2-0/

Can you upload a sample FBX tree, so we can check out if there are any texture/material issues?


No textures would be a shame. I would like an android version and a PC version too.
I have attached an FBX example.

Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2011, 02:53:23 pm »
November 25, 2011, 02:53:23 pm
Sorry to disappoint you, but there are no textures included in that FBX file.

thecravatman

    Reputation: 7
Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 06:39:24 pm »
November 25, 2011, 06:39:24 pm
Agreed, but I wondered if we missed something on the export side. It is in line with your note about licensing restrictions though.

We really need more plants and climbers any thoughts on the best program?
Speed tree is a no go for us due to cost.
Bionatics has to be upgraded to Nat fx to be able to export and is over £1200 to convert our existing seeds.
Onyxtree, xfrog and GrowFX are options but yet another major cost and learning curve.
TreeSketch looks like a winner especially when it is free! However, like we always say if it too good to be true it probably is.

Aaron

    Reputation: 80
Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2011, 01:46:45 am »
November 26, 2011, 01:46:45 am
@thecravatman

Looks like a very cool app!
I'd guess you soon run into issues when trying to get a low-poly version and/or a botanically correct model out of it though?
Out of curiosity, when you mention you need more plants, what kind of plants?

Pete Stoppel

    Reputation: 33
Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2011, 02:11:47 am »
November 26, 2011, 02:11:47 am
Cool looking app, too bad only iPad.

Personally I think the Lumion library for trees could be sufficient IF (big if) one could somehow modify them, say I want a tree with pink flowers, to represent one close to what the client wants, I can take a similar one from library that has white flowers and change them to pink, or take a tree and modify leaf color to represent fall, even better to remove some leaves to represent winter.

I had to find white flowering Crepe Myrtles the other day, but the only one in the library had pink blossoms and it was perfect, if only I could have changed the color.

Now once we modify the tree it would be great to be able to save it as modified for use again.

Just thoughts.

Aaron

    Reputation: 80
Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 03:02:44 am »
November 26, 2011, 03:02:44 am
Personally I think the Lumion library for trees could be sufficient IF (big if) one could somehow modify them..

I recall sth similar from a good while back regarding adjusting Speedtree colors for a more autumn-ish look. Back then Remko commented it should be possible to make that happen but it all seems to have faded away until, like so many things, it now resurfaces because the idea is sound  ::)

The tech is pretty simple:
Essentially you don't color your diffuse maps but keep them grey.
A colorslider then tints the texture to what's desired.
This is pretty versitile by itself already but would require adjustments that might proof a bit tricky or timeintensive as most Speedtrees utilize a single texture-atlas for anything but the trunk texture to keep drawcalls at bay. Flowers and related details are also more often 'baked' into the foliage then forming a seperate texturechunk.

In other words:
Global colorvariations> Possible
Component colorvariations > Unlikely as is.

Perhaps some kind of iffy levels/hue/sat stuff but I don't see that happening anytime soon either.




thecravatman

    Reputation: 7
Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2011, 09:28:54 am »
November 26, 2011, 09:28:54 am
@Aaron
We design gardens so need a pretty wide range of plants to differentiate designs.
So roses, climbers, ground cover, perennial hedging especially formal Buxus and pleached Carpinus, the list goes on.

@Pete
Agreed you have to think out of the box, we currently use a red flowering tree as roses by burying them and resizing them.

Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2011, 03:12:34 pm »
November 26, 2011, 03:12:34 pm
Essentially you don't color your diffuse maps but keep them grey.
A colorslider then tints the texture to what's desired.

You're right - texture colour masks is also how we have made it possible to customize the colours of cars (and the upcoming furniture models). However, to be able to create any colour with the masks, the diffuse part of the texture has to be relatively close to white (as I found out the hard way when I prepared the cars back in 2010 :) ).

Pete Stoppel

    Reputation: 33
Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2011, 05:24:13 pm »
November 26, 2011, 05:24:13 pm
Thanks for the replies guy.

The tricky thing in archvis is when working with a client that has used a landscape architect, and normally those are the jobs that require more than a simple render or drawing. Doing a static image is easy as you can minupulate the image in Photoshop to get a plant similar to what client will be installing, but in animation that is not the case. So unless the library is planning to cover all plants, shrubs and trees for all vegetation zones I'd think that some sort of customising option be considered.

thecravatman

    Reputation: 7
Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2011, 05:46:29 pm »
November 26, 2011, 05:46:29 pm
Yes, customising or importing is vital.
What is the story with those other programs? What options do we have? With an SU, Lumion and Vue workflow Bionatics could support all, but at quite a price. I am amazed they are not more proactive.

Pete Stoppel

    Reputation: 33
Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2011, 05:51:34 pm »
November 26, 2011, 05:51:34 pm
I use Vue for exteriors when client has the budget (render farms cost big bucks for Vue animations) What i like is the plant editor as I can modify anything to what I need or even just buy it from Cornucopia if I have a time issue.

Imagine being able to import my personal Vue made plants into Lumion?  :-D

Aaron

    Reputation: 80
Re: TreeSketch 2.0
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2011, 08:32:30 pm »
November 26, 2011, 08:32:30 pm
Yes, customising or importing is vital.
What is the story with those other programs? What options do we have?

It goes without saying the Speedtree road is kind of a narrow lane right now.
Sure, IDV has released Speedtree Studio (read Speedtree Lite) but that won't get you anywhere with Lumion since it requires you to have the full 5.1 SDK.
Expensive, by now outdated, and requires one to get a 'bill of rights' to have access to it at all since it's middleware, which also from a point of maintanance for the Lumion devs, can be a total disaster from time to time (have a look at the hotfixes required up till now and count the Speedtree ones....oh wait, that's 100% so you don't need to count anything)...

That said, Speedtree is ofcourse very cool. I'm still a huge fan, even though, ever since I started modeling foliage for CryEngine3, my bias towards it has changed a bit.

Ideally Lumion would have some kind of simplified solidgrowth-ish
implementation in the future. A couple of mainstream algorithms for Trees, bushes and flowers with the option to customize textures and sizes. If paired with a vertexshader for windsimulation and some kind of auto-sprite and mips config, the need for Speedtree as the sole format for Lumion foliage would quickly melt away. So, Treesketch with a twist so to speak.