Author Topic: applying materials  (Read 6179 times)

Lech Switala

    Reputation: 3
applying materials
« on: March 15, 2011, 05:47:10 pm »
March 15, 2011, 05:47:10 pm
The Lumion rendering capabilities are fantastic, BUT applying materials to a model created in a 3D application (Formz in my case), where different objects with same material (let's say glas in building 02 is on layer A and  glas in building 03 is on layer B) are on different layers - is a huge challenge.  On top of it trying to apply materials inside a building (fe through a glas facade) seems impossible.   
In order to make Lumion beat the world, and there is a potential,  a working layer system has to exist.
Am I right saying that with importing a model all objects with the same material are grouped together and the layer structure ceases to exist?  What are the 5 layers on the left good for?  How can I assign materials/objects to them?

mischa

    Reputation: 23
Re: applying materials
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2011, 07:25:56 pm »
March 15, 2011, 07:25:56 pm
After my opinion there are no layers imported into Lumion (most formats like 3ds or dae don t support layers, so by exporting your scene the layer structure gets lost). Only object structures and their materials are imported into Lumion. If objects have the same material applied they will have the same material in Lumion. So you can easily adjust them. Yes it is sometimes a bit tricky to select a material in a scene if the object is very small or a behind a glass facade for example. You can put your objects into a sort of layer structure in Lumion, but at the moment there are only 5 layer available. These layers are not used for applying materials, but for hiding many objects at one click. You can t apply a new material to an object of your scene, you have to do this in form z, export it again and press the reload button (edit material section) in Lumion. Then you will be able to modify the new applied material.

Lech Switala

    Reputation: 3
Re: applying materials
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 09:26:43 pm »
March 15, 2011, 09:26:43 pm
After my opinion there are no layers imported into Lumion (most formats like 3ds or dae don t support layers, so by exporting your scene the layer structure gets lost). Only object structures and their materials are imported into Lumion. If objects have the same material applied they will have the same material in Lumion. So you can easily adjust them. Yes it is sometimes a bit tricky to select a material in a scene if the object is very small or a behind a glass facade for example. You can put your objects into a sort of layer structure in Lumion, but at the moment there are only 5 layer available. These layers are not used for applying materials, but for hiding many objects at one click. You can t apply a new material to an object of your scene, you have to do this in form z, export it again and press the reload button (edit material section) in Lumion. Then you will be able to modify the new applied material.

That's what I thought, the layer structure is bye bye after importing.  How do I asign an object to one of the 5 layers?  Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 
I think Lumion has to still evolve a bit or the makers of Lumion have to decide who is the, as they say in German, "Zielgruppe" (target group, client). 
Architects work with layers, 3d models are also used for other purposes, not only animation.  Lumion forces to create 2 different kinds of models, one with layers, one with a color based structure.

mischa

    Reputation: 23
Re: applying materials
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 10:10:53 pm »
March 15, 2011, 10:10:53 pm
You have to select one or several objects and click on "modify object" (same section where you can also choose "move" or "delete") and then choose "menue", followed by "selection", then "layer" and later "move selection to layer". Now you can choose to which layer your object must be moved.

I don t work much with layer structure, so I don t miss it. For what purpose do you need the layers in lumion? Only for hiding objects?

RT-Visualization

    Reputation: 4
Re: applying materials
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 11:53:52 pm »
March 15, 2011, 11:53:52 pm
My advice is to divide your building in different layers ( in the 3d app that you're using I mean ) and from there apply the materials you want, best way to assign the same material to the objects that share the same materials.

When you finish to apply all the materials you export, one by one, all the layers you needs...for example in my two floors apartmente I create a layer for each room, so I have bedroom living room, bathroom, and so on.
So, in Lumion, you import your "kitchen" and start apply the materials, then, when you finish with the kitchen, you import "bedroom", put it away from the "kitchen" and apply the materials again, until you do all the layers.
When you're done with the materials you align all the meshes that you import together ( since, in my case, the 0 point is the origin, so each imported mesh has the same origin ) and you check the results.
If you want to modify lately the materials you just select the mesh that you want to modify and from there change the material property.
So far this is one of the best and quick solution I've found in order to setup materials properly and test everything all together after applying the materials.

I suggest you try this method, otherwise you can use the layers inside Lumion, but I prefer exporting layers from my 3d app and then do all the operations described above  :)

Lech Switala

    Reputation: 3
Re: applying materials
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 12:56:08 am »
March 16, 2011, 12:56:08 am
My advice is to divide your building in different layers ( in the 3d app that you're using I mean ) and from there apply the materials you want, best way to assign the same material to the objects that share the same materials.

When you finish to apply all the materials you export, one by one, all the layers you needs...for example in my two floors apartmente I create a layer for each room, so I have bedroom living room, bathroom, and so on.
So, in Lumion, you import your "kitchen" and start apply the materials, then, when you finish with the kitchen, you import "bedroom", put it away from the "kitchen" and apply the materials again, until you do all the layers.
When you're done with the materials you align all the meshes that you import together ( since, in my case, the 0 point is the origin, so each imported mesh has the same origin ) and you check the results.
If you want to modify lately the materials you just select the mesh that you want to modify and from there change the material property.
So far this is one of the best and quick solution I've found in order to setup materials properly and test everything all together after applying the materials.

I suggest you try this method, otherwise you can use the layers inside Lumion, but I prefer exporting layers from my 3d app and then do all the operations described above  :)

I'm getting the point. In one "layer" you bring all of the different materials (fe colors) and then in Lumion you adjust the material/colors.  The thing is you need a lot of time to export all of the "layers" one by one.  From Formz I need to export the fmz file to Bonzai and then from Bonzai the collada file to Sketchup and then to Lumion.   Actually it works better with the dxf format which preserves the layers, but in Lumion they all disappear...   
You need time for these exports of each layer. 
Let's see what further Lumion development will bring.

RT, grazie for your input.

RT-Visualization

    Reputation: 4
Re: applying materials
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 08:57:46 am »
March 16, 2011, 08:57:46 am
Yes, this is quite tedious, going from a software to another ( in your case 3 different software ) its a waste of time...I mean, is not worthed anymore, since you'll spend a lot of time going from a software to another...
I think that your best option is to change a bit the workflow in Formz in order to speed up the export, just try with a small scene directly from Formz to Lumion, it might take a while but I think that with a little trial and error you'll find the best solution to work with your 3d app and Lumion :)
Godo luck  ;)

Re: applying materials
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 09:18:56 am »
March 16, 2011, 09:18:56 am
The layers are not for layers inside a model. They are layers for your whole scene. Like trees in layer 2 cars in layer 3. This system is not meant to import layers from modeling programs.

We group materials into 1 surface that you can then apply a Lumion material on. I am not 100% sure what your problem is with applying Lumion materials.

Lech Switala

    Reputation: 3
Re: applying materials
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2011, 10:17:23 am »
March 16, 2011, 10:17:23 am
The layers are not for layers inside a model. They are layers for your whole scene. Like trees in layer 2 cars in layer 3. This system is not meant to import layers from modeling programs.

We group materials into 1 surface that you can then apply a Lumion material on. I am not 100% sure what your problem is with applying Lumion materials.

As an architect who also designs the building you create a 3d model not only for animation but also for other purposes like mass evaluation or doing stills in other software packages.  You work with layers.  As I've understood now model layers don't belong to Lumion's philosophy. 
You also have to import the model in stages, since you cannot apply material or put objects (fe people) for that matter inside a building through a glas facade. If in Lumion model elements would be on layers I would just turn the facade layer off, put the people inside the building or asign material to the interior walls and then turn the facade layer on again.
This is what I meant.


 

mischa

    Reputation: 23
Re: applying materials
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2011, 10:34:23 am »
March 16, 2011, 10:34:23 am
Maybe a "Hide by material" button would be helpfull?

Lech Switala

    Reputation: 3
Re: applying materials
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 10:42:52 am »
March 16, 2011, 10:42:52 am
Maybe a "Hide by material" button would be helpfull?
Sounds great! It would improve handling a lot. 

gabrielefx

    Reputation: 6
Re: applying materials
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2011, 12:33:29 pm »
March 16, 2011, 12:33:29 pm
Maybe a "Hide by material" button would be helpfull?

with material lister should be easier to change imported materials with Lumion materials.

Lech Switala

    Reputation: 3
Re: applying materials
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 01:02:50 pm »
March 16, 2011, 01:02:50 pm
with material lister should be easier to change imported materials with Lumion materials.

but you wouldn't be able to insert an object into a building without switching off fe the glas facade.

Re: applying materials
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2011, 08:16:40 am »
March 17, 2011, 08:16:40 am
You can already use the invisible material. Not sure if that helps.